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The following has been taken from the TCC2000 website at:

Day 2: TCC_Honu_Room Transcript

Michael Coghlan and Vance Stevens. "An Online Learning Community -- The Students' Perspective"

+ MichaelC has arrived.
<MichaelC> Welcome!
+ Vance has arrived.
<MichaelC> This is the place!
+ Cazza has arrived.
<MichaelC> Hello Cazza.
<Cazza> evening folks!
<MichaelC> So Cazza - you are where? I'm in Australai and Vance is in the Emirates.
<Cazza> I am looking for the chat tonight with Jane from UK. do you know what time. Its meant to be in the Hibiscus room. but nooe\ne there yet
<Vance> Hi Cazza
<Cazza> I'm in Australia too. Is that the United Arab Emirates, Vance?
<MichaelC> Sorry Cazza - can't help you. I cjecked before and I think we're the only one at the moment.
<Vance> Are you here for the next presentation? Yeah, UAE
+ davkees has arrived.
<MichaelC> This starts at 1300 GMT. The next one is at 14.00
<Cazza> Jane said she was going to on centre stage at 19.00 GMT, What time is that in Oz
<davkees> OK, this is text only?
<MichaelC> 6 hours from now!
<MichaelC> Yes Dave - text only.
<Vance> Hi Dave, yeah, text only here.
+ mark has arrived.
+ LorettaK has arrived.
<davkees> so how do you use these different types of rooms?
<Cazza> oh, maybe I;d better get some sleep and join them at 5.00 am. Yawn! What's on here next.
<Vance> This is the conference site. Dave is confused because he was just in our voice chat room
- LorettaK just left.
<Vance> Our presentation is of an online class that meets in various places including voice chat
<MichaelC> Cazza - check the chat schedule off the conference main page.
+ Maggi has arrived.
<Vance> AND Michael and I are in the voice chat room if anyone wants to join us there.
<Cazza> Okay, and you are presenting then Vance. Maybe I'll stay for a while then.
<Vance> Davkees just did. If you want to join us you open a NEW browser window and go to this url
<Maggi> am I her?
<MichaelC> Yes maggi - this is it!
<Maggi> can't stay long
<Maggi> only had 3 assessment tests so I came home
<Maggi> Hello everyone...
<Vance> Hi, sorry, I'm talking to Michael in the voice chat and Gloria on ICQ
<Cazza> Okay, when I'm at this URL what do I do?
<Vance> This is pretty typical of the start of our classes
<MichaelC> Mark - welcome. the rest of us know each other. Where are you?
<Vance> Cazza, if you go there, you'll see Michael and I and davkees in the voice chat. Grant java securities and you can talk to us
<mark> I am a reference librarian at the Univ of South Florida in Tampa
<Vance> Michael and I are talking while we chat here with you.
<Maggi> Didn't think anyone would still be here
<Vance> I'm not sure if davekees can hear us. But I guess you can follow this chat, right Dave?
<MichaelC> Still? We haven't started...
<davkees> Yeah, I'm here OK.
+ Friendly has arrived.
<davkees> I'll give you a 1-10 count on the voice side and see how you get things from me.
<Maggi> oh...I thought it started at 10 GMT
+ KeikoS has arrived.
<MichaelC> Welcome Mark. The others are from australia, germany, UAE, China.
<Vance> Good. What you're experiencing is something similar to our Writing for Webhead class.
<KeikoS> Good morning, Michael, Vance and everybody.
<Vance> Maggi is one of the teachers, as is Michael
<Vance> And Davekees is in China and counting to us over the voice chat.
<KeikoS> I would like to say Language Teacm was EXTREMELY interested in this.
<KeikoS> I have to go back and report.
<davkees> Could you hear my 2 yr old in the background?
<Vance> Here's the URL
<Cazza> Please tell me step by step about the voice chat I;m in at your URL MichaelC
<Vance> I met Keiko last night and she helped me check to see if she could be here AND there at the same time
<MichaelC> Keiko - Language team?
<Cazza> How do I select the java securities
<Cazza> presumably one would need tohave speakers and sound card to 'hear' this voice chat ?
+ gloria has arrived.
- davkees just left.
<MichaelC> Yes Cazza.
<gloria> Helloooooo
<Maggi> Hi Gloria
<Vance> And in teh voice chat, one of our students has just arrived, Ying Lan
<KeikoS> Yes, there are some forums.
<Vance> And Gloria is another of our students. HI Gloria. I'm sending the url to Ying Lan now.
<gloria> Hi how are you?
<KeikoS> One of them is Team Language! GUess what that is for.
<MichaelC> Everyone - Gloria is one of our students from Paraguay.
- Cazza just left.
<KeikoS> Hi, Gloria. Buenos dias.
<gloria> Buenos dias a tod@s
<KeikoS> We are supposed to report back on some issues.
<MichaelC> keiko - tell us about team language...
+ davkees has arrived.
<KeikoS> One of them is online interaction between the students.
<KeikoS> The Chair Satoru Shinagawa was VERY interested in this,,,
<KeikoS> but it is 3am Hawaii time.
<MichaelC> We do a lot of that!
<MichaelC> Online interaction i mean.
<KeikoS> Also somebody who met Vacnce at TESOL, said he is a charming
<Maggi> LOL
<KeikoS> guy but she couldn't attend.
<KeikoS> So I have big responsibility to report this back.
<Maggi> he is charming.,..
<MichaelC> Now - does have anyone have any quesyions about what we do? Our paper?
<Friendly> I just went to the URL you cited and when I went to install plug ins got a HIGH RISK notification -- so stopped.
<KeikoS> I will be greateful if you guys stop by at Web Forum.
<KeikoS> Team Language!
<Maggi> I won't be able to stay more than 30 minutes I'm afraid
<Vance> The risk notification is normal
<Vance> Hi friendly
<Maggi> but you are in good hands with the guys
<KeikoS> Why do you get that? Cause it is Java?
<Friendly> HI, It may be normal, but is it a risk?
<Vance> So, Gloria, while we're managing the other, chat, can you tell them something about Webheads
<Maggi> tell them why you joined
<KeikoS> Oh, that was URL for WebForum. I didn't know it came out.
<Maggi> sure did keiko
<Vance> Gloria is one of our students. She's in Paraguay
<KeikoS> I am all ears, Gloria.
<Vance> Ying Lan is in the voice chat. She's in Taiwan right now.
<gloria> webheads is our virtual community, community of friends...
<KeikoS> Oh, this is too exciting!
+ Kinshuk has arrived.
+ Ying has arrived.
<Maggi> and friends we ARE
<MichaelC> Welcome Kinshuk - I know your name well.
<gloria> I guess you are all teachers
<Vance> I'm in Abu Dhabi and Michael is in Australia
<Ying> hi, This is Ying Lan. I am from Taiwan
<Vance> They are two teachers and Maggi is the third. She's in Germany.
<Maggi> Hi Ying
<Kinshuk> Thanks Michael.
<KeikoS> Maggie is in Germany??
<Maggi> yep
<gloria> Hi Ying!
<MichaelC> Ying - would you like to says omething about Webheads?
<Ying> Who was speaking?
<KeikoS> Hi, Ying.
<Kinshuk> I am also teacher (from New Zealand), but I am more in research.
<Ying> hi
<Maggi> this room is hopping
+ Deb_S has arrived.
<KeikoS> 'morning, Deb.
- Deb_S just left.
<MichaelC> As you know our paper is about community - would anyone like to say what they think a community is?
<KeikoS> Ah, kind of bonding between people, but you don't see it.
<Friendly> Are we a comminty at the moment, because of a shared interest?
<Maggi> I think so
+ Cazza2 has arrived.
<MichaelC> That;s a good question Friendly - your answer/
<gloria> human being gathered together to share something and to learn from each other...
<Vance> If you want to join our voice chat, then visit this url ...
<Maggi> well said GloriA
<Ying> Interest is interesting.
<gloria> how about that :) ??
<KeikoS> I agree with Maggi.
<MichaelC> if you read our paper you will see that Gloria finds this is in our commuunity.
<KeikoS> I have a question..
<Friendly> The Voice chat has a HIGH RISK warning on the plug in-- this still terrifies me. I send all the info to my school so they can try it out.
+ Deb_S has arrived.
<Vance> We have a class web page at
<MichaelC> Sois this a community bhere today? or does a coomunity have to be together for some time?
<KeikoS> Hi, Deb. Don't leave us.
- davkees just left.
<Vance> It's ok about the high risk. It's a standard java messagge
+ lisa has arrived.
<Cazza2> Sorry, went wandering down the hall to other rooms. I don't have speakers or a sound card on this old PC tonight.
<Vance> In fact, chat clients like ICQ for example contain risks
<Friendly> But I would hate to have the machine shut down, or other terrible consequences.
<KeikoS> This community is obviously virtual and geographically large.
<MichaelC> We have been using these tools for a couple of years and so far no dramas.
<Vance> If you use chats you risk exposing your ip address and invite intrusion
<Maggi> ooops
<Vance> But among colleagues, should be ok
<KeikoS> Doing real time has not caused anybody problems?
<Vance> Maggi shouts at us a lot. I just put in earplugs.
<Friendly> I'll let the school take the risk. Still am chicken. Are the voice messages also transcribed her, or separate?
<Maggi> LOL
<Cazza2> can you 'hear' me? helloo.
<Maggi> Maggi just has butter fingers
<Friendly> In a community, what about volition. The students may be enrolled, but not especaily interested in participating.
<Maggi> not really Keiko
<KeikoS> Satoru says doing real time on online class...
<Vance> Of the people in this room now, 3 are teachers of the class and 2 are students
<KeikoS> defeats the purpose of convenience. Any commnet?
<lisa> Hello all. Hello Cazza2
<Maggi> they isn't the case here
<Vance> Ying Lan, how long have you been a student of this class?
<MichaelC> That;s the beauty of this class. no one is enrolled. It is 100% volition.
+ Maggie has arrived.
<Vance> I know Gloria has been with us for over a year.
<Friendly> Aren't we all students of each other?
<KeikoS> Nobody pays?
<gloria> well guys I just stopped by to say HI !!! so HI!!!! and bye... I have to work
<KeikoS> Nobody gets paid?
<Cazza2> you mean chat crashers vance?
<Vance> Paid? What's that?
<MichaelC> People join this class because they want to participate. AND, no one gets paid!
<KeikoS> WOW. THis is for fun.
<Vance> We get paid in friendship.
<lisa> Yes, Vanca. Explain about the risks?
<MichaelC> Thansk for coming Gloria.
<Maggi> it's fun...
<gloria> you are welcome!
<KeikoS> But you need money for equipment, computer use,
<Maggie> Hello....
<KeikoS> technical support...
- gloria just left.
<Vance> There is another student from China in our voice chat. She can't get here.
<MichaelC> That's true of course.
<Vance> But if you like you can visit the voice chat and talk to her.
<KeikoS> How do you run it?
<Maggi> by GloriA ^.^
<MichaelC> We offer each other technical support.
<Vance> Ying is there as well. You open a NEW browser window.
<Cazza2> my messages take about 3 mins to arrive
<Friendly> Is the voice chat separate or connected to this chat -- that is, is the information being exchanged the same or different?
<KeikoS> Bye Cloria. Thanks for coming.
<lisa> for the teachers: Do your schools recognize your work somehow?
<MichaelC> Lisa - any questions? comments?
- mark just left.
<Maggie> Hello everyone...What's going on here?
<MichaelC> You beat me Lisa.
<Maggi> I'm freelance
<MichaelC> No official reognition.
<Friendly> What is the focus of this chatroom -- if there is one?
<KeikoS> Michael....
<Vance> Oh, MaggiE got here ok! Great
<MichaelC> But of course it helps our work.
<Maggi> Hi Maggie
<lisa> Totally fascinating idea. I'd love to do it.
<Vance> This is pretty much how we do it every week.
<MichaelC> Friendly - the focus is communiyt.
<Vance> We find a place where everyone can meet.
<Maggie> Hello....repeat..this is Maggie ...student from China
- Ying just left.
<KeikoS> Hi, Maggie.
<Vance> In this case, it looks like everyone has been able to get to this room
+ Ying has arrived.
<Maggi> in high school
+ Charlotte has arrived.
<MichaelC> Hi maggie (student)
<KeikoS> Must be beautiful season in China.
<Vance> We meet on ICQ usually
<lisa> I think, also, that at my school, it would count in my "service." Do you have to report service every year. Where do you teach (other than here)?
- Ying just left.
+ Ying has arrived.
<Cazza2> I will go to bed now. Very late here in Australia. Chat room seems to be operating at a snail pace tonight. Very distracting.
+ JoanneG has arrived.
<lisa> Goodnight Cazza2
<KeikoS> Vance, I guess nobody uses Mac.. huh?
<Maggi> I teach in companies Lisa
<MichaelC> I teach in the Australian equivalent of a Community College.
<Maggie> Hello...not very good's rainning heavily..
- Friendly just left.
<KeikoS> Oh,...
<MichaelC> Cazza - thanks for coming.
<Vance> Not sure, ask them ...
<lisa> You are a consultant, Maggi?
<KeikoS> Because I can't get in!!!
+ Friendly has arrived.
<Ying> Hi
<Vance> Because Keiko couldn't join us last night in the voice chat, mac problem.
<Ying> My name is Ying Lan , I am a student in Webheads.
<Vance> She tried to help me test it.
<Maggi> I teach Business English Lisa
<Cazza2> I will bid you all a good night. If you are able to MichaelC, please send me some further details of your Voice chat. You'll find my details in People at the TCC web site. Bye for now.
<Vance> And Michael is at a third site we use, the Palace.
<KeikoS> Nighty nighty Cazza.
<Kinshuk> If community means getting students work colllaboratively with each other and feel like a community, it is a common technique here in my organisation. Massey Univ. (my org.) has very large number of extramural students and this is one way we try to ensure
<MichaelC> cazza - your surname?
<Vance> So we can be in many chat places at once.
<lisa> I taught that at a homeless shelter/rehab program. Great job.
<KeikoS> Kinshuk brought up a good point.
<KeikoS> Do you do projects collarobatively?
<Maggie> May I ask you where are you from..KeikoS?
<Vance> Yeah, I was jst reading it
<Kinshuk> You can see some results at:
<Friendly> Is the randomness of the conversatioin typical of a chatroom? Do you find it productive? Is this the (fragmented) communication of the future?
<KeikoS> I am Japanese living in the US.
<JoanneG> MichaelC> Pardon for coming in mid-conversation, but where in The Palace are you?
<Ying> Sorry! I am on another phone
<KeikoS> I am ESL by training, taught Japanese now in Web design.
<Maggie> sounds great.
<Vance> For that we'd have to ask Ying Lan and Gloria. Do you find this productive?
<Kinshuk> Yes, projects are also collaboratively. Students form ICQ groups for this purpose. Currently they are doing tutorials this way.
+ jdmeyer has arrived.
<MichaelC> Friendly - can I throw that back at you/ is this kind of ransom chat productive/
<Vance> Would anyone like to try out our voice chat? There are 4 of us there.
<Maggie> I guess one day I could be a Chinese teacher online when my Chinese is better
<Maggi> Gloria left Vance
<Vance> OK Cazza, thanks for joining us.
<KeikoS> Well, Maggie. Good.
<KeikoS> But things are not that easy if it is non roman.
<Vance> And MaggiE, do you find this productive?
<Friendly> It appears vague and fragmented to me -- not just this chat room, but all I have seen. I have held very few in my WEBCT class becuse students cannot agre upon a mutual time.
<KeikoS> That is what I asked.
<lisa> My students don't agree on more that just the time.
<KeikoS> But since they do this for fun, they find time for fun.
<MichaelC> Chat works best with about 6 people in my opinion (but I am enjoyi g thois current experience!)
<Vance> We actually have 3 venues. We chat once a week. Students keep web pages. And we use a list serv
<Maggi> we just set a time and those who cn come do
<Vance> I think all the urls are in the paper, right Michael?
- Charlotte just left.
<KeikoS> Thank you for your comments, Michael.
<MichaelC> so as vance inidcates - chat is just one smalle part of what we do.
<Friendly> I am down to 3 students; 1 comes to everything, the others are never available.
<lisa> six is a great number. I can see how this medium would increase lang. fluidity
<MichaelC> Yes - all URL's are in the paper.
<Vance> We're not at all organized, we just push the edges of the envelope as best we can.
<lisa> When I've tried it in a class of twenty, agh!
<Maggie> Hey ..Vance did you know the English teacher in Guanzhou?
<Vance> One of our students, Felix in Brazil, sends us real media videos of himself
<Friendly> I'm off to read some more papers now, see you later.
<MichaelC> 20 in a chat room requires rules and a moderator.
<Friendly> bye
- Friendly just left.
<KeikoS> Bye Friendly.
<Maggie> He (or she)sent me a e-mail last night
<lisa> So, some of us could join your class if we wanted? Would we pay?
<MichaelC> LOL.
<lisa> yes-and my university's support is not a moderated medium
<Maggi> it's free
<Vance> The English teacher in Guanzhou writes to a list I follow and he mentioned where he was and I asked him if he knew of you.
<Maggie> totally free...
<lisa> free!
<KeikoS> That amazes me.
<Vance> Because you mentioned some American teachers there, but I'm not sure he's American
<KeikoS> Students are committed?
<lisa> I am so impressed with this use of technology
<Maggi> that's the beauty of it
+ rachelle has arrived.
+ Charlotte has arrived.
<Maggie> I see.I tried to explain the group of us to him.
<KeikoS> You know, maybe THIS is learning.
<MichaelC> there are a couple of people here who haven't had a say yet - jd? Joanne/
<KeikoS> You wanna learn so you come.
<Vance> That's the interesting thing about this class. The students AND teachers have been committed for almost 2 years!!
<Maggi> they stick around
<Vance> It's the longest I've ever taught one class.
<lisa> would they ever be interested in chatting with American students?
<Vance> Almost
<Maggie> but I am a new student here.
<Vance> You could ask them. There are two here.
<lisa> Would you?
<KeikoS> Teachers, you must have some kind of syllbus...
<KeikoS> Or curriculum.
<KeikoS> What is it like?
<Vance> Maggie for one. She's just joined us from China. Ying Lan has been with us almost two years. RIght?
<Maggi> nope
- Charlotte just left.
<MichaelC> No keiko - it is not formal in that sense.....
<KeikoS> Or lesson plans?
<Maggi> why do you need one to teach Keiko?
<Vance> You could write us a letter inviting us to correspond. Send it to
<MichaelC> and I'm tempted to say that's why this had lasted so long.
<KeikoS> Well, just to know why we are doing it.
<Maggie> it's so quick..I must read a little bit faster...I enjoyit very much
<Vance> We have no plans at all. We just communicate.
<KeikoS> Because not formal?
<KeikoS> Humm.
<MichaelC> Thats' right.
<lisa> The joy of true education.
<KeikoS> Well, you couldn't be doing it if it is not fun and
<KeikoS> rewarding.
<Maggi> we do it because we like it and enjoy being together
<Vance> What do you think about that Ying Lan and Maggie ... no lesson plan. Does that bother you?
<MichaelC> One of the students in the paper says he like it becuase people don't join this group to be assessed.
<lisa> How'd you find out about this conference?
<Ying> I am talking to my manager by phone
<Maggi> %I've been here the two years before
<MichaelC> They join webheads because they want contact and practice - not assessment.
<Maggi> communicating...
+ louise has arrived.
<Vance> Just to let teh newcomers know ...
- jdmeyer just left.
<Maggie> it's very free that we don't have any lesson plan..I think
<Vance> You can join Michael, Ying Lan, Maggie and I in the voice chat and talk to us right now if you want
- Cazza2 just left.
<lisa> what is voice chat? (laugh quietly, please)
<Vance> You go to this url in a NEW browser window (so you don't close this one)
<KeikoS> In a way, you are lucky to put this together.
<MichaelC> is anyone here a part of any other online community?
<Vance> YOu have to accept the java security message and load a plugin (very fast)
<KeikoS> I manage a listserv. DOes that count?
<MichaelC> If so, does it work? Why? why not?
<Vance> And then you can talk to us
<Maggie> you guys can talk in the URL that Vance gave..if you have a mic
<MichaelC> i thnk listservs can promote community.
<KeikoS> I do it through eGroups and use chat session for
<KeikoS> a study forum.
- louise just left.
<Vance> We could do that too (egroups chat) but we have others as well
<MichaelC> We also use egroups for our listserv.
<KeikoS> They are supposed to make it Japanese capable soon.
+ nick has arrived.
<Ying> sorry
<KeikoS> Well, Vance, Michael and Maggi.
<JoanneG> Got to skoot... rl screams... thanks so much Michael and Vance. The little bit I got to listen to was very interesting.
<lisa> I'm attempting the download now. crossing fingers....
<JoanneG> *waves*
<KeikoS> I better go on to wifely duty.
- JoanneG just left.
<MichaelC> great Joanne.
<KeikoS> But I hope you guys stop by at Langauge Team forum.
<Vance> Visit our website at for more information
<Ying> I am talking to my manger on another phone.
<KeikoS> We would definitely like to have your input.
<MichaelC> I willt try and od that Keiko.
<Ying> manager
<Maggie> I am just watching the computer and be quiet...
<KeikoS> You gave me a lot of things to think about...
<KeikoS> And how nice of students to stop by.
<Maggi> good too...^.^
<KeikoS> That just shows how strong your bonds are.
<KeikoS> I envy you.
<nick> Michael are they logging these chats at all?
<Vance> These webchat presentations are all logged. If anyone else would like to give us urls, we'll have them for later reference
<MichaelC> That is wonderful. Whenver we do conference presentations we always have some students come.
+ splange has arrived.
<KeikoS> Temporal farewell....
<MichaelC> Yes Nick - this is logged.
+ louise has arrived.
<Vance> ok, thanks for coming back Keiko
- KeikoS just left.
- rachelle just left.
<nick> Do you have the URL for the log (I'm sorry I missed you guys - just time zone diffs)
+ jean has arrived.
- jean just left.
+ jean has arrived.
<Maggi> I still have 5 minutes and then have to scoot too...
+ Pim has arrived.
<Vance> I'll put it on our web site when I find the log
<MichaelC> Jutst a reminder - we're hear to answer questions about online community - our wenbheads community in particular.
<Vance> The web site is
<Vance> At the website you can see our pictures, by the way, so you know who you are talking to
<nick> Thanks Vance
<Vance> In fact, you just click on a picture and find out more about the person
<MichaelC> Hi Jean!!! How are you????
<Maggi> I better check that out...hmmm
+ Veronica has arrived.
<lisa> not gonna work, the download. I guess I'll have to keep typing
<jean> Hi ya michael, i'm very well - just tired... :-)
<Vance> - this is where you can see a picture of Ying Lan and Maggi and Michael and I
<lisa> Do any of you know if this type of "class" is also happening in other languages?
<MichaelC> I don't Lisa. Does anyome else know?
<Vance> anybody? I don't know ...
<Veronica> Hi, louise what was the end of yesterday's chat
<louise> no idea I went to bed
<louise> just sitting here tryign to pick up a thread...
<Vance> I'd like to ask our students a question (two are here) ...
<Veronica> ha, obvoiusly, when it was the hotest time it was 3 pmhere, I also went bed
<Maggie> here here..
<Vance> Why do you think students come back week after week even though we have no lesson plan?
<Veronica> vance,you mean me too?
- Kinshuk just left.
- nick just left.
+ weberl has arrived.
<Vance> Did I erase my question?
<Veronica> yes
<Maggie> even though we have no lesson..I think I still can get many from it
- splange just left.
<louise> do students always know if ther eis a lesson plan anyway?
<Maggie> I mean I can study from the e-mail
<Maggi> anybody know who slange was?
<Vance> Still get a lot out of it .. and what do you get out of it?
<Veronica> what you mean by lesson plan?
- weberl just left.
<Vance> VERY good point, Louise
+ jacky has arrived.
<louise> well, I always write everythign out for my students and put it ont e web page
<Maggie> sometimes I can get useful imformations
<Vance> Actually, they can tell. We've been criticised for it and we've discussed it in our class
<Veronica> I guess students always know
<louise> but they seem surprised that I put it there
<Maggi> Michael puts up topics to discuss regularly on the listserv
+ davkees has arrived.
<Veronica> louise, what you think on via internet education for central asia?
<Maggie> and the teachers sometimes will give us some interesting topics for us to write
<Maggi> everything they write is corrected and put up on their web page
<Maggie> and correct it for us
<Vance> That's true Maggi. We call ourselves a writing class. So in fact we have a plan
<Vance> We encourage students to write and develop their web pages
<Vance> Chat is just a community builder
<Maggie> I am better at writting now...I think:-)
<Veronica> maggie, are you student at university?
<Maggie> no...I am still in high school
<Ying> maggi she is my teacher
<Maggie> I will go to university this year..
<Maggi> high school....but she is good eh?
<louise> I think the main probelms anywhere are connections
<Veronica> greate? how you here?
+ sertsa has arrived.
<Ying> hello maggie
<Maggie> by taking the college entrance exams..
<louise> we are great consumers in teh US and western Europe...
<Vance> What was your question, VEronica?
<Maggie> I am student Maggie from China...there is a Maggi teacher from German
<Ying> i am talking to my manager on another phone
<Maggi> Germany
<MichaelC> For those who have just come in, Maggie and Ying are 2 students of the webheads community.
<Maggie> sorry...Germany
<Vance> No one has joined us in the voice chat yet. For those of you just coming in ...
<louise> we had a polish student here who couldn't believe we wasted all these technical resources on video games....
<Maggi> no problem MaggiE
<Veronica> i just wanted to ask do people believe in Central asia via internet education
<MichaelC> Michael , Vance and Maggi (one I) are teachers.
<Vance> You can talk to Michael and I and Ying Lan and Maggie from Taiwan and China in our voice chat room.
<louise> and he spent ages on the web, just becuase they ahve no phone lines there, so he can't do that at home
<Vance> We are all there now. Here is the URL:
<louise> his house had hte only phone line for the street
<Ying> i have been studying e
<MichaelC> Veronica - can you explain your question a bit more?
<Ying> English on online for over one year.
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<Maggi> I have to go....enjoy everyone...:-)
<Veronica> good, do you have there any experience?
<louise> so I think to get to central asia we have to get the resources there
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<MichaelC> Ying - I think it's about TWO years!
<Vance> Thanks for coming by Maggi. You must have got DST off by an hour.
<Maggie> bye Maggi...
<Ying> over one year!
<Maggi> well...nice change of pace to my day....
<Maggie> so there just is student MaggiE here now
<Ying> i am lazy,
<louise> ying, over one year would definitely also count over 2 years, so you are right!
<Vance> You are not!!
<Vance> not lazy I mean
<lisa> Ying, I just checked out your webpage, I think. You like Leonard Cohen?
<MichaelC> So this is a class for lazy people?
<Ying> I am back
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<Vance> Hi, is anyone here guest 914 in our voice chat? If so press options to change your name.
<Maggie>'s not for lazy people..although I am lazy too
<Veronica> vance, is it possiobel to comunicate some how withi\out voice chart?
<Vance> Press text chat to text chat to us
<Veronica> how?
<louise> I think we also have to remember that many peopel are using a foreign language ( english) to communicate...
<Vance> Well we use ICQ and text chat, and the Palace.
<louise> and with no gestures or facial expressions, it must be hard
<Veronica> oh, yes, that 's write, difficult i should say
<Vance> We use all kinds of expressions ;=)
<Vance> Ming is quite good ^_^ and in the Palace you get Avatars
<Vance> Someone is looking at Ying Lan's web page. She has pictures and stories there.
<Vance> Personalities come out in so many ways.
<Veronica> so , vance you did not q\answer, have you already use via internet education there?
<MichaelC> Louise - that is the amazing thing. Apart from the teachers of course, this community is conducted in a foreign language.
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<Maggie> later..I will try to send pics to you too.
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<MichaelC> But we do psot pictures on websites (as vance said earlier)
<louise> do the teachers speak and write the other languages?
<Vance> Is that Veronica in our voice chat room? Click on text chat to use your keyboard there.
+ mark has arrived.
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<Vance> I think we do. I speak French and Arabic and a bit of other languages.
<MichaelC> I can only speak Dutch. maggi - german.
<louise> how do you write arabic ont eh computer?
<Veronica> no I still here, in text chart, well i not very good in this , i guess i should say something for you to hear me...
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<Vance> Michael speaks a bit of strine as well (that's a version of English)
<MichaelC> be careful Vance!
<louise> michael c - it looks like english to me - maybe I should have said write not speak
+ olz has arrived.
<Vance> MIchael says if you will come to the voice chat he will demonstrate STRINE
<Veronica> well it would be good to use voice chart here. but i am i-net cafe
<MichaelC> If you were in the voice chat you would hear my beaustiful accent.
<louise> i hate voice chat it is too broken up. Besides, you demonstrate srine by chewing sour grapes while talking.
<Veronica> oh, is it?
<Vance> Would anyone like to leave a calling card, an email address or a url?
<Maggie> beautiful sccent??
<Maggie> :-)
<Vance> If you write it here we'll have it in the logs.
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<Vance> Is there another presentation taking place now?
<JoyceM> Hello, yes
<louise> yes, it's in nai'a
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<Veronica> michaelC, where are you from, with your beautiful accent
<louise> i'm about to go there
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<JoyceM> I am coming in to start the Netizenship pres
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<JoyceM> Is anyone here for that?
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<Vance> Michael is from Oz, which is why he speaks strine
<JoyceM> Hello cathyr
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<cathyr> Hello
+ Ying has arrived.
<JoyceM> Hello Michael
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+ Ying has arrived.
<JoyceM> Hi Ying
<JoyceM> oops, missed her
<Maggie> How about me JoyceM
<Ying> That's strange, I can not go to our voice chat room
<JoyceM> oooh, didn't see you Maggie
<Ying> But I can hear you guys very clearly.
<JoyceM> Hello, are you here for the Netizenship pres?
<Vance> I think we'd better wrap up ours. Everyone thanks very much for attending our presentation.
<Vance> I have to go because I am at a real conference
<JoyceM> Sounds like it was a fascinating one, Vance
<Vance> But we welcome you to visit our webheads class at
<Maggie> oh...
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<Vance> Thanks Joyce, and now, over to you. I'll have to rush off unfortunately.
<MichaelC> And ther eis another session scheduled for this room so it's time for me and Vance to hand over to Joyce Meyer.
<Ying> bye Vance
<MichaelC> Thansk for coming everyone!
<Maggie> bye..Michael..and Vance
<JoyceM> Thanks
<Vance> I've done so Michael (extends hook, gives Michael subtle tug)
<Ying> bye Michaelc

<JoyceM> :)
+ Deb_S has arrived.
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+ Deb_S has arrived.
<JoyceM> Hi, Deb
<Deb_S> Hi, Joyce. I just got blown off the web
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<Ying> I can hear you...
<JoyceM> ouch that must have hurt
<JoyceM> Well, g'day all, nice to see everyone in power suits
<JoyceM> :)
+ joy has arrived.
<JoyceM> I hope folks would like to discuss Netizenship
<JoyceM> hi joy
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<joy> Hi Joyce!
<JoyceM> hello also sertsa
<sertsa> hello Joyce
<JoyceM> and vance
<Deb_S> I read your paper. It was very interesting.
<sertsa> very interesting
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<sertsa> :-)
<Ying> Hi maggie
<JoyceM> Thank you deb
<Ying> Are you here?
<Maggie> yes..still here..
<Deb_S> I know first hand about the use of chat for support groups...
<JoyceM> I was just uploading some corrections to our class page-in-progress
<JoyceM> yes, they can be a real port in the storm
<Deb_S> I had some people from a hospital using some of our chat rooms for a support group for neurology patients
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<JoyceM> wow, that's great - were students involved?
<Ying> maggie, I want to go....
<Deb_S> Unfortunately, I couldn't let them stay. There was too much activity and it was interfering with academic chats
<Ying> I am a student in Webheads.
<Deb_S> No, they were trespassers
<JoyceM> wow, this all has such potential
<Ying> I was on another phone to talk to my manager,, sorry for keeping silence ..
<Maggie> u have to go now ...Ying?
<Deb_S> I felt bad about not being able to allow them to use the server but the Dean said no.
<JoyceM> hmmm, that's too bad
<Ying> I am tired. I have to go my office tomorrow.. you know it is serious.
<Deb_S> However, I did get to look at the dynamics of the discussion. It was very interesting.
<JoyceM> (i think we're on a party line)
<JoyceM> yes indeed
<Maggie> then..have to say goodbye ..
+ joy has arrived.
<JoyceM> i think some of my frustration is in seeing the potential and not necessarily having all the resources to play it out
<JoyceM> hardware, etc
<JoyceM> or capacity as you speak of
<Maggie> I will have to leave soon..
+ Ron_ has arrived.
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<JoyceM> hi ron
<Deb_S> Do you find that the chat technology is used extensively for support groups?
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<JoyceM> there is a great deal, yes, and it's growing
<JoyceM> it apparently is extremely useful for those with embarrassing conditions
<JoyceM> hi lori
<Lori> hi everyone
<Ying> hello
<JoyceM> has the most extensive list i've seen
<JoyceM> hi ying
<Ying> Do you work in Hospital?
<JoyceM> have others found/used such (if you care to share that)?
<JoyceM> i don't, but i am a social worker who has worked in drug rehab
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<Maggie> who is working in Hospital?
<Maggie> I c
<JoyceM> maggie, deb was mentioning a hospital group has used her chat space
+ Francois has arrived.
<Deb_S> Some of the political legal links are being used by our professors too but I'm not sure if they now about all of the ones you've listed. I will share the links with them. Thanks for the url; I'll take a look
<JoyceM> hi francois
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<Francois> hi joyce
<JoyceM> hi ron
<Maggie> That's interesting then
<JoyceM> what did you think of the web activism?
<JoyceM> online sit-ins, etc.
<Deb_S> I'm not sure if I understand exactly how that works.
<JoyceM> that part fascinates me, tho i can't say i'd necessarily use in class
<JoyceM> the idea has apparently been implemented in a variety of ways, but
<JoyceM> i think the main idea is events are concurrent
<JoyceM> -- can feel in solidarity (or can you?)
<Deb_S> How do they get people's attention?
<JoyceM> that's a good question --
<JoyceM> when i've been alerted to such events,
<JoyceM> i've received a link on a listserv i've already joined, or
<JoyceM> i've found out by seeing info posted on a website i've chosen to "attend"
<JoyceM> --seems to be a pretty self-selected group.
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<JoyceM> brb
<JoyceM> sorry just had to cross the room
<JoyceM> i am also fascinated by the idea of virtual volunteering
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<JoyceM> and by such new ways of contributing as
<Deb_S> Do students do vitual volunteering for credit?
<JoyceM> i haven't gotten quite that far, but they do have an assignment to find helpful sites
<Lori> Re: virtual volunteering - I am too. Just looking at this idea for adult literacy programs and have a link if you'd like one
<JoyceM> i would like to get to the point where i could do more
<JoyceM> as long as i could track it adequately
<JoyceM> ah, sure, lori, please!
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<JoyceM> ohoh, i missed her
+ Lori has arrived.
<JoyceM> ah, lori
<Francois> Joyce , i'm thinking of another way to try and understand Web Activism
<JoyceM> yes i was hoping to get your link - afraid i'd missed you
<JoyceM> tell me, francois
<Lori> Sorry, went to get the URL and popped out of the chat. It's
<Maggie> have to go now..
<Maggie> bye..
<JoyceM> ah, yes, i've seen that -- that's a great central site
<Francois> Could it be a type of many to many communication (volunteering mentoring being ususally one to one)?
<JoyceM> in fact just put their cover page on a trans for in-class use
<JoyceM> many to many, yes, what a wonderful notion
<Lori> Great, it is a good site.
<JoyceM> i'm certain it would be able to work that way
<Lori> Sorry, must run now too, have a good chat!
<JoyceM> bye maggie thx
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<Francois> it seems your typology of activity does fall neatly into a table with the possible permutations of "one" and "many"
<JoyceM> oh, bye lori
<Maggie> sorry that didn't chat much today..having another thing to do at the same time...hope to see you next time
<JoyceM> francois, what comes immediately to mind are many implementations that are paid activities
<Maggie> and chat together...really sorry
<JoyceM> many of these certainly lend themselves to volunteer acts
+ Kafkaz has arrived.
<JoyceM> example: online help via chat for school sites
<JoyceM> hi kafkaz
<Kafkaz> Hi!
<Maggie> bye
+ davkees has arrived.
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<JoyceM> francois just brought up possible permutations for virtual volunteering
<JoyceM> hi davkees
<davkees> Hi there, everyone gone?
<JoyceM> no we're here
<Francois> as compared to web activism... one to one; one to many, many to one, many to many
<JoyceM> do you have some ideas on virtual volunteering?
<Kafkaz> Well, I see the power of virtual activism . . .
<Kafkaz> It's already all around us.
<davkees> Was there some sort of class here before?
<JoyceM> francois, are you specifically meaning synchronous when you say many-many?
<JoyceM> dav, no, this is just based on the Netizenship pres
<Francois> no I don't mean synchronous or asynchronous... i mean orginator(s) and destination(s)
<Francois> i have found newbies to lists tend to think in terms of one to one....
<davkees> Oh, umm, I think there was some sort of English class for Webheads here about 30 minutes ago.
<JoyceM> ok, i was just realizing i was envisioning a turn-taking type of situation
<JoyceM> on, yeah, should be archived, dav
<Francois> and this may be the clue to the Web Activism... like a f2f demo many people come to one place/time with many agendas wanting to communicate with many others
<JoyceM> how do you mean w/newbies, francois?
<Kafkaz> But, it can be very focused, too, Francois . . .
<davkees> Joyce, how do I access the archive?
<Kafkaz> The movement against testing is one example . . .
<JoyceM> please ask at tcon central as we are within pres right now, dav
<Francois> let try to explairn by pointing out that volunteering can be one to many or one to one
<Kafkaz> Others might be things like support for alternative lifestyles, or for alternative medical treatments.
<Francois> web activism is almost inherently many to many
<JoyceM> yes exactly, kafkaz
<davkees> sorry, excuse me, bye
<JoyceM> yes, francois, i see, go on...
<Kafkaz> <--nods to Francois--it is, but it can begin with 'few to few' and grow from there.
<Francois> Web Activism is possible about leaving a trail of communications....
<Kafkaz> Right, materials others can access for info and support.
<JoyceM> yes, exactly, great!
<Francois> i think that many to many is the under theorized part of computer mediated communication
<Kafkaz> I just had a baby, and saw how powerful the mothers online are--how they've really influenced the medical community.
<Francois> though i'm not sure about that last statement
+ naka has arrived.
<Francois> i'd have to do a review of the literature
<JoyceM> hi naka
<Kafkaz> With things like birth plans, access to details docs don't share, access to reports, movements for specific treatments--it's amazing.
<JoyceM> we are discussing the many possibilities of virtual volunteering
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<Francois> yes, i think that CMC has taught more people about intellectual legacy
<Kafkaz> <---ends personal example! :-)
<Francois> or leaving footprints.......
<Kafkaz> blazing trails . . .
<Kafkaz> <--grins at Francois
<JoyceM> :)
<Francois> i am wondering if part of volunteering doesn't plug into record keeping....
<Francois> learning from experience etc... telling stories
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<JoyceM> yes, that is part of what i'm running into
<Kafkaz> Oh, yes, the personal narrative is a *huge* part of the activism.
<JoyceM> i need a better system of tracking -- any ideas
<Francois> so there is a meta component to the work you are doing with your students
<Kafkaz> which is both wonderful and difficult.
<JoyceM> good pt., kaf
<JoyceM> exactly, francois
<Francois> you are in a sense teaching them to be historians of their own quotidien experience
<Kafkaz> Because it isn't enough to tell stories, though they are crucial--we have to learn, as followers of those paths, to be critically minded about them.
<Francois> you are making them value their experience by sharing that experience and teaching them how to value the experience of others
<JoyceM> yes, even with what i've done so far, i'm amazed at how empowering it's been
<Francois> you move them from imagination to participation to leadership
<JoyceM> excellent, precisely
<Francois> all with a sensitivity to the ethics of intervention
<Kafkaz> Have to go--bye, all.
- Kafkaz just left.
<JoyceM> bye kaf
<JoyceM> all that vision and then <poof>
<JoyceM> i can make an analogy...
<JoyceM> i find the "devil in the details," as it were
<Francois> nods
<JoyceM> i run into snags when i try to find a lot of ways to use this within a course, practically speaking
<JoyceM> the tracking, as i say, is an important concern...
<Francois> prat fall as an act of grace? *wink*
<JoyceM> especially when the rest of the course is a conventional one
+ Ilene has arrived.
<JoyceM> hi ilene
<JoyceM> not sure what you mean, francois
<Ilene> Hi!
<Francois> translation: it is an art to capitalize on one's mistakes or knowledge gaps.
<JoyceM> have you been able to synthesize your ideas into an actual course?
<Francois> I think Deb and Rachelle may have something to say about tracking in the next session
<JoyceM> ah, well, yes, this is how much has "worked" thus far
<Francois> at least about file management :)
<JoyceM> yes, i look forward to that
<JoyceM> deb, any thoughts?
<JoyceM> well, it's just that i want them to be able to do more...
<Deb_S> Sorry, I was preoccupied. I see that you are talking about tracking but I don't know what the context is
<JoyceM> but i know they want to know how it's going to "count"
<JoyceM> and so i need to get better about deciding how & what to quantify
<JoyceM> deb, just getting into how to track student work online
<JoyceM> thank you, francois, i will follow up on that - i'm eager to see it
<Francois> hmmmmm I just restate the value of personal archives.. don't evaluate them for it....
<JoyceM> but still they will want a point value
<JoyceM> are you saying just let who does it do it?
+ joy has arrived.
<JoyceM> or just count the act/experience the same for everyone no matter how they do it?
+ rachelle has arrived.
<JoyceM> hi joy
<JoyceM> all these are possible, of course
<JoyceM> hi rachelle
<rachelle> hi
<joy> HI again! Just checkinon how the chat is going.
<JoyceM> assign it but not check it?
<JoyceM> again, all possible
<Francois> yup I point to a lot of good practices that don't get marked by some exercise.
<JoyceM> it's just that many will blow it off, but maybe that's ok
<Francois> They may learn to value t latter.
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Last updated: April 22,  2000