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Vance Stevens

Writing for Webheads: An Online Writing Course Utilizing Synchronous Chat and Student Web Pages

Kauai Room

Thursday, 08 April, 1999

+ Bizarrerie has arrived.
- Bizarrerie just left.
+ Charlene has arrived.
+ Vance has arrived.
<Charlene> Hi, Vance
<Vance> Hi Charlene, just jawing with Flash for a sec
<Charlene> Is he coming over?
<Vance> Don't know. Have you attended any other presentations.
<Charlene> Yes. They were very good.
+ Steve has arrived.
<Charlene> Hi, Steve
<Steve> hello again
<Vance> Were you in the web chat one?
+ barbie has arrived.
<Vance> Hi Steve, Barbi ..
<Steve> Yeah, just for a minute.
<Charlene> Hi, Barbi
<Steve> Hi Vance.
<Vance> Hi all
<barbie> Hello all. Vance I suppose I should have read your paper before coming here!
<Charlene> I think I had better head to bed. It is going on 2am and my eyes are getting blurry.
<Vance> Well, there's a url you can go to
<Charlene> Bye
<Vance> K Charlene, you're up late. You can visit the url bye
- Charlene just left.
<Steve> I hate to admit it, but I need that url, too. Do you have it handy?
<barbie> Are you staying in this room Vance ? If so, how long?
<Vance> Here's the url:
<Steve> Thanks.
<Vance> Well, it looks like there's nothing on for 5 more hours, though I doubt I'll be here that long
<Vance> I can stay an hour or so
<Steve> I should be right back. See ya.
<Vance> K Steve
<barbie> Where are you? What time is it? Don't want to keep you up.
<Vance> I'm in Abu Dhabi. It's 10:45 a.m. here. I'm at my office. It's the weekend. How about where you are.
<Steve> I guess you can't copy and paste from a Java app.
<barbie> Oh my goodness. I'm here too. ADWC.
+ flash has arrived.
<Steve> Where in God's name is that, Vance.
<barbie> in the UAE, Steve.
<Vance> No kidding. Cool. We might as well have held the conference in Abu Dhabi. Next year maybe.
<barbie> hahahah. Yes. Will read your paper now. Back in a bit.
<Vance> OK. My paper is actually about my online language class. Best thing is if you visit the url itself
- Steve just left.
<Vance> and that's
<Vance> Have you got browser windows open?
<Vance> I mean, in addition to your chat browser?
+ Judy has arrived.
<flash> yeah
<flash> I'll go there now
<Vance> I mean in addition to your chat browser window, do you have a second browser window open?
- Judy just left.
<flash> yup, just opened another
<Vance> Webheads is an onlline language class. It's free, volunteer, fun, challenging ...
<Vance> If you go to the url you can see the pictures of students who have sent me one..
<Vance> The class is run in a number of modalities.
<Vance> Three modalities to be exact.
<Vance> You guys with me?
<flash> Yeah, I'm switchin between the website and here. smile
<Vance> cool
<Vance> OK, the 3 modalities are: (1) synchronous chat at The Palace (which we can visit if you like)
<Vance> (2) There's an "eclass" which is essentially a listserv and students email it, respond to each other whatevahs
<Vance> and (3) each student has a web page which either I set up through their email OR
<Vance> what I really want them to do is ...
<Vance> Set up their OWN web pages on Geocities of somewhere like that.
<Vance> At the Palace, meeting synchonously with students, I can talk them through the process, and two have done that so far.
<Vance> I've also got a url that students can visit for instructions.
<Vance> It's
+ HankS has arrived.
<HankS> Hi all
<flash> OK, I've been looking at Ying lan's page. It looks like she's enjoying it a lot
<Vance> Yeah, Ying Lan comes to the Palace almost every week and she's one I helped get her own web page.
<Vance> She's written some neat stuff. Her trip to Nordcap is inspiring.
<Vance> Basically, students do as much or as little as they like.
<Vance> If you look at
<Vance> last column on the right (in the table)
+ Steve has arrived.
<Vance> you can see the last time students contacted the class, and it's sorted by date
<Vance> so the last students are at the top
<Vance> Have you ever taught online before?
<Steve> Hey Vance, i just got back from looking at your website. Pretty neat stuff.
<Vance> I'm asking because there are a number of issues with online teaching ...
<Vance> thx
<flash> Yeah, chois page looks good too
<flash> I'm teaching a Norwegian student grammar online now
<flash> We use ICQ and e-mail
<Vance> As I try to explain in the paper, the biggest challenge with this kind of online teaching, free & voluntary, is ...
<Vance> any ideas what the biggest challenge is?
<flash> I sent her the text, and she emails the assignments to me, then we discuss them in ICQ
<Steve> I've never taught entirely online, but do use course websites, conferencing, listservs, collaborative software.
<HankS> I don't think it was clear from your paper whether this is a voluntary activity, uncompensated, or not
<Vance> Flash, is your student a part of a course?
<Steve> Staying motivated?
<Vance> totally uncompensated, totally voluntary, never met the students
<Vance> You got it Steve
<flash> Yes, it's an independent study course I'm doing with her as an experiment
<Steve> You mentioned something about the course ends when either the student *or* the teacher gets tired of it.
<Vance> This is maybe my 3rd or 4th attempt at an online class, and the first one that's jelled
<flash> I'm going over this summer, and I'd like to recruit six students to expand it
<Vance> Yeah, this one has been going for a few months, and that's a LONG time for an online course
<Vance> The hardest thing about an online class of this nature is developing a sense of community
<Steve> I'm sure you already answered this, Vance, but how did you get started in this?
<HankS> do your students communicate with each other now?
<Vance> You can volunteer to teach at
<Vance> That's how I got started. After that, you're on your own.
<Steve> I'll check it out.
<Vance> My students communicate in 3 ways: at the Palace (synchronous chat)
<Steve> community is a problem in any class, though, even f2f.
<Vance> (2) via a listserv I set up at, which I call the 'Eclass"
<Vance> and (3) via their own web pages
<Steve> I've used egroups myself.
<Vance> Either I make the web pages for them, or if they're really hot, they start their own
<Vance> f2f??
<Steve> face to face.
<Vance> face 2 face, got it
<HankS> When I do this with my students, I basically give them a blank homepage to edit
<Steve> Using HTML editors instead of raw HTML, right?
<Vance> Anyone can set up an egroup. Just visit and do it.
<HankS> Right, but the html creeps in
<Vance> The listserv handles email from its members. Members write the list and their email is sent out to all. Responses go to all.
<Steve> What attracts the students, learning English, or learning web authoring?
<Vance> Believe it or not, I do all my html in Microsoft Word (still)
<Steve> So do I mainly.
<HankS> Composer for me, mostly in WebCT
<Vance> That's a good question, Steve, and one that I was leading up to ... that's THE question, what attracts the students
<Vance> And that's what a successful online class has to do, because it's all volunteer
<Vance> students vote with their browsers (LOL)
<Vance> So I'm wondering myself, what attracts them.
<barbie> Vance - why do you use word and not composer?
<Vance> I think a lot of them like the idea that they have a web presence.
<HankS> My students really get turned on by the creativity of web pages, the graphics and all
<HankS> Me too!
<Vance> I ask students to send me an introduction and a picture.
<Vance> WHen they send me the former at least, I put it on their own web page and tell them to check it out and see where their work has been corrected
<Steve> Working in Word feels more comfortable in some ways, Barbie.
<Vance> Some are impressed, and this motivates them to write more, and see it on the web
<Steve> Familiar territory.
<barbie> Yep.
<barbie> So vance, do you actually correct their web pages for them?
<HankS> Is all their work autobiographical
<Vance> On Barbie's question, I've been looking at a lot of web editors, and in most of them, I can't read my existing web pages, so I stay with word till I can find one that works with what I have already.
<Steve> I've actually started using FrontPage Express for a lot of my editing, though.
<Steve> Comes packaged with recent versions of IE.
<Vance> Yes, I correct everything I put up. I never post anything raw. They tell me they compare what I post with what they wrote, and this helps them.
<barbie> What's the advantage of using FrongPage. I've heard it's a bit tricky?
<HankS> Gotta put in a vote for Netscape communicator, with netscape and composer
<Vance> If they do their OWN web pages, I wouldn't correct them unless they asked.
<Steve> I don't like the full service program, Barbie. FP Express is a lot like Composer -- not so complicated.
<Vance> Front Page utilizes a lot of WebBots that your web hoster has to have in order to take advantage of its features
<barbie> Vance - I presume by this you mean they keep a copy and compare with the corrected version you send them.
<flash> I've been using PageMill. I edited papers for this conference and found it worked very well and opened them easily
<Steve> Yeah, PageMill is another good one -- very easy to use.
<Vance> Yes. The students are at varying levels. I don't want them embarrassed by their level of English, so what goes on their web page is correct
<barbie> Vance - do you do any editing of their layout, design etc. How do you teach them these features on-line?
<Vance> Only a few students come to the chat class. I think it's because a lot can't cope with the level of English of those who frequent the place
<Steve> Are you more concerned with language or with design, Vance?
<Vance> I WOULD teach this stuff if asked. So far, only two students have done web pages at my behest, and a couple have come to my class with existing pages which I help them with
<Vance> with language
<Vance> But, it's really a question of what the STUDENT is concerned with, not me
<barbie> I see. What would you do if you got a complete beginner who could barely manage WORD.
<Vance> I was just looking over the chat I missed. I haven't seen FP express. Does it use those tricky web bots?
<Steve> What *are* they concerned with?
<Vance> Well, in my class, if a beginner can manage email, then that's enough. I can do the rest.
<HankS> Vance do you feel that there is anything cohesive about the class, or is it just isolated individuals?
<Steve> Only three web bots, very basic stuff.
<Vance> Steve, you're asking the right questions, what motivates them, and what are they concerned with?
<barbie> Vance you said you used ICQ for the chat. How do you stop intruders coming into your room?
<Vance> That's a good question too Hank. I mentioned earlier that the hardest part about an online class is community
+ darrel has arrived.
<Vance> This class is starting to get cohesive.
- darrel just left.
<Vance> There's this guy in Brazil, called himself Bahia at first, didn't even want to give us his name.
<Vance> After we got to know him, he introduced himself, you can take a tour of his home on his web page, and we've all got standing invitiations to visit hime in Brazil
<HankS> I try to get members in my classes to explain distinct topics to each other
<Steve> Cool!
<Vance> But there's this distrust at first ... who are you, who are they?
<HankS> Maybe you could take advantage of the intercultural membership
<Vance> After getting to know each other, people become friends
<Vance> It takes time though, and persistence.
<Steve> Persistence on your part, or theirs?
<Vance> Like with a party, you need to invite enough people to reach critical mass
<Vance> on my part - I used to hang out at the Palace (in my office) and "pick up" students as they flitted by. that's how I met Ying Lan for example.
<Vance> And Dave assigned me maybe 4 students for each who eventually stuck with the class
<Steve> I'm not familiar with The Palace, Vance. Is it an online community?
<barbie> Sorry - is the Palace your room in ICQ?
<Vance> the attrition rate in online teaching is horrendous
<Steve> So I hear.
<Vance> You have to get enough students in place that others will be attracted
<Vance> Like starting a restaurant, after a while, everyone wants to eat there.
<barbie> How many times do you meet a week?
<Vance> We can visit the Palace if you like. Instructions are at
<barbie> I'll try it.
<Steve> Me too.
<Steve> You need to download software, right?
<Vance> We meet once a week. We used to meet twice, but it was taking a lot of time.
<Vance> You visit and download the client
<Vance> Hopefully, you could do that in the background as we chat.
<Vance> Then you launch the software and connect with the server where the Virtual Schoolhouse is.
<barbie> I'm lost. I just got your page again.
<Vance> Instructions for that are at
<Vance> (the url I gave you a minute ago)
<Vance> Some students have difficulty with that, and many don't reach the class due to techie snags
<Vance> At first my class was mainly at the Palace, but as I realized it was out of reach of most students ...
<Vance> I got the idea to make it a writing class via web pages on the web
<Vance> and THAT is what attracted most students ...
<Vance> the FOCUS on the web aspect, with the Palace chat as a mere adjunct to the class
<barbie> I can't find the palace. I've opened your page in a new browser window - but where is the palace?
<HankS> Do you know any other teachers in EFI. What motivates them?
<Vance> Well, I do know a few. I met Dave Winet, the EFI guru, before EFI in California.
<HankS> It says here this is a project at Berkeley. Experimental
<Vance> And Maggi, one of the teachers, whom I never actually met, helped me arrange a ski holiday in Austria on my way to TESOL last month
<Vance> Since teachers do this for free, maybe their motivations are like mine ...
<HankS> yes
<HankS> .....
<Vance> You learn from others about the technology. Me, I haven't actually taught ESL for the last few years, but since I did it for 20 years, it's in my blood, and I like keeping my hand in it.
<HankS> Ah, now I see
<flash> since your students are from a variety of time zones, how did you determine the best time to have classes?
<Vance> I really enjoy this kind of teaching. I think the students enjoy it. There's no pressure on anyone to perform or produce beyond what they just WANT to do.
<Vance> Time was easy. Like the time of this presentation. When it's convenient for me.
<Steve> Wow, now if they'd just pay us to teach like that.
<Vance> I mean, you can NEVER find a time suitable for everyone. Make it easy on yourself..
<barbie> Vance - are you planning to visit any ofyour students?
<Vance> There's been some talk in EFI of doing it for pay or fees for the students, but I think that would destroy the concept
<Steve> I agree.
<Vance> Yeah, I might get down to Brazil one of these days. If in Taiwan I'd certainly look up Ying Lan.
<flash> Yeah, I guess when it's put that way. I did have to consider time that was convenient for both me and my student in Norway since she is taking it for college credit
<Steve> Yes, she seems like an interesting woman.
<Steve> Ying Lan, that is.
<Vance> If there's college credit or student fees involved, it's a slightly different ball game
<Vance> There, the motivations will be different
<HankS> and there will be assessment
<barbie> Do the students you teach ever feel they should be paying your something? Does the conversation ever come up?
<Steve> I really do have to hit the sack; I'm working on fumes here. Vance, I'm downloading the Palace client right now. Where and when could I find you online?
<flash> Yes, all of the above, but I'm lucky, this student is highly motivated. I worked with her on her Enlish when she was a nanny in Alaska
<flash> So I'm glad to continue to be able to help her with her English over the net
<Vance> No, money never comes up. But students are constantly THANKING me and the other teachers for helping them, which is the best pay there is.
<Steve> Depending on the culture, some students feel very uncomfortable getting something for nothing.
<barbie> Yes, Steve. That's what I was thinking.
<Vance> I hadn't thought of that
<Steve> Then again, some others act like they are entitled to it.
<barbie> Yes - like it's your duty. Have any of you had students who haven't been satisfifed with what you have given them?
<Vance> The interesting thing about the EFI is that students and teachers show up. Actually in my class there are two other teachers who come there often.
<Vance> The other teachers had their own classes scheduled near mine, but we all kind of melded into the same class.
<HankS> Can you characterize the general content of your discussions?
<Vance> There was one guy in south america who seemed to want to take the class but he couldn't meet until late at night for me
<Steve> I was wondering the same thing, Hank. What do you talk about, Vance?
+ Gary has arrived.
- flash just left.
<Vance> He seemed a little put out that I couldn't stay up for him, but he just dropped out eventually.
- Gary just left.
<Vance> The chats are all on the web. Here's the url:
<barbie> Oh dear Vance.
<barbie> I'll have a look at them now.
<Vance> Conversations range from the weather to politics, our last discussion
<Vance> One of the students is in Paraguay and they've just had a sort of revolution
<Steve> Okay, I'm about ready to turn into a pumpkin. hopefully I'll bump into one or two of you later in the conference. Thanks for you insights, Vance. G'night.
<Vance> I've tried to get students on task in the chats, and often that is resisted
<HankS> So how much of your persistance results from the content, and how much from your love of teaching?
<Vance> Yeah, hope to see you later steve, are you presenting?
<Steve> Nope, just participating. See ya. Maybe in The Palace.
- Steve just left.
<Vance> Well, I'm a CALL coordinator who needs to keep up with technology, so my interest in this class professionally is in how to make the technology work and ..
<HankS> Whats CALL?
<Vance> also in the student dynamics. Love of teaching is a part of it.
<Vance> Computer assisted language learning
<HankS> Is this an AI thing?
<Vance> What do you do, Hank?
<HankS> I teach biology, among other things
<Vance> No, nothing to do with AI. Just how computers can be used in teaching,
<Vance> In my case, the teaching of languages, esp. ESL
<Vance> Do you use computers extensively in your biology classes?
<Vance> Barbie, I presume you're a teacher at ADWC?
<HankS> I was a total neophyte 1 year ago
<Vance> Where are you?
<HankS> KCC.
<Vance> I used to live in Hawaii. I did my MA there and taught 2 years on the big Island.
<HankS> This fall I had 4 different classes on WebCT
<HankS> No kidding
<Vance> I've heard a lot about WebCT. How do you like it?
<HankS> I came here years ago as an EastWest Center student
<HankS> Hence my interest in this intercultural stuff
<barbie> Yes Vance at ADWC. Just becoming computer literate. Just been reading your chat pages in the palace. They seem to go on for ever. This must take up lots of your time.
<Vance> I used to eat Thai food every day in the East West Center. I was in Moore Hall.
<HankS> I'm trying to get a joint project going with American Samoa
<Vance> I do the chats every Sunday at 3:30 abu Dhabi time. You're welcome to joinus if you like.
<barbie> Hanks - can I ask, what clases have you been delivering using WebCT?
<HankS> But computer literacy hasnt reached there yet, i think
<HankS> General biology, Human Anatomy and Physiology
<barbie> Vance - I'd love to. Sunday, 3.30!
<Vance> Yeah, just pop by the Palace. Call me at 2087302 if you have any problem.
<barbie> Will do.
<Vance> Hank, Barbie and I are in the same city it turns out.
<HankS> Where's that?
<barbie> Hanks - are you working from home when you deliver your WebCT courses?
<Vance> Abu Dhabi.
<HankS> My classes are supplemented with WebCT at the moment
<Vance> There was a lot of talk of WebCT at this past TESOL Conference.
<HankS> But in the fall there'll be a distance course, and i'll do the chat from home
<barbie> So how do you actually use it? Students communicating with each other via E-mail, bulletin board etc?
<barbie> Yes Vance - went to a few presentations. And you?
<HankS> I use everything, but the most interesting part has been getting the students to make web pages!~
<Vance> Did you go to New York?
<barbie> Hanks - that's exactly where I'm at, at the moment. Have you been successful?
<HankS> They love it
<barbie> What was the topic of their webpages?
<HankS> None had done anything but browse the web
<Vance> So you're using WebCT too Barbie?
<barbie> Yes, I'm doing this TWIST project - critical thinking.
<HankS> Either I assign them topics, or they choose them from within the course content
<HankS> The good pages become a permanent part of the course
<barbie> Are they on-line Hank. CAn I have a look at them?
<Vance> Have either of you got a url I can visit right now?
<Vance> You can check out
<barbie> I haven't yet because my students' webpages aren't finished. We are still browsing, selecting suitable research topics etc but they will be posted on the student presentation area of web ct in about 8 weeks time.
<Vance> I've got some stuff on WebCT there.
<barbie> What kind of stuff vance - your own or your students' stuff?
<Vance> I'm looking at it now. It's Concordia's web CT server (Concordia U in Canada)
<HankS> my homepage is
<HankS> Whoops, that otta do it!
<barbie> Can we save this buffer? There are so many addresses flying around.
<Vance> Tha's better
<HankS> The course you want to look at is Biol 172
<HankS> I'll make a guest account: sign in as guest, guest (password)
<barbie> I have about 20,000 browser windows open. Is my computer going to crash???
<Vance> Hey, there's your picture. Do I need quicktime for your course?
<HankS> no, just for the homepage images
<Vance> B, you can have 4 browser windows open.
<Vance> If your computer slows down, close a couple of browser windows
<HankS> you should be able to get in, look at presentations
<barbie> Hank - it wouldn't accept the password and login name guest.
<Vance> user name guest, password guest?
<barbie> Thanks Vance. It's OK at the moment.
<barbie> That's what I did. guest guest.
<barbie> Will try again later. Same question - can we save this buffer? HOW?
<Vance> Yeah, I'm in: guest guest
<barbie> Will try again.
<Vance> It looks like the buffer is only the last 256K or something. Only the last few minutes.
<barbie> Hooray - am in now Hank. Back in a bit.
<Vance> Probably these chats are archived somewhere.
<Vance> OK Hank, where to now?
<HankS> I was fiddling with the page
<HankS> I guess I'm still curious about the intercultural aspects
<HankS> Are the students interested in each other's cultures
<barbie> I presume you're talking to Vance. I only have Arabic students.
<Vance> You mean in my class? hmmm ... yeah, in fact, the current thread in the eclass is whether language is universal or deterministic of cultural biases
<HankS> have to think about that one for a minute
<Vance> Hank what I see on the WebCT page is mainly delivery. Anything interactive there?
<barbie> so do I.
<HankS> Not yet with the interactive stuff.
<HankS> I'm working on that for the fall anatomy class
<barbie> Hank - how much was put on by students. Just the good stuff?
<Vance> What will you be able to do for the anatomy class?
<HankS> My dream is to have each student thread their own way through the maze
<HankS> If you have quicktime 3.0, look at my homepage in the graphics list
<HankS> There are quicktime vr tutorials coming, based on dissections
<Vance> There's this link to - Addison Wesley Longman??
<HankS> That's just the publishers page
<HankS> Graphics list, lower right of the table'
<Vance> I gathered that. MC quizzes there though. Can students get scores?
<Vance> Graphics list? On which page?
<HankS> The leahi homepage
<HankS> outside webct
<HankS> look at the fetal pig
<HankS> you need a fast connection though, I haven't optimized it
<HankS> Eventually these things will have two alternate images for each frame
<HankS> one with the question, another with the answer. Students can toggle between them
<HankS> Turn the image around until you get a labeled frame
<Vance> I've been fiddling my computers. I'm at Is this where I find it?
<HankS> Thats it
- barbie just left.
<HankS> are you worn out?
<Vance> I see a twirling leaf. Where is the fetal pig?
<HankS> Click the lower right cell of the table
<HankS> Note the fetal pig is 2.7 mb
<Vance> hmmm shall I go for it?
<HankS> I have a cable modem, you?
<Vance> I could always check it out in my own time. No need for you to ...
<HankS> It would probably take a long time to download
<Vance> My connection is maybe 33.6. I'm using the dialup because I can't ftp through the firewall on my office computer (no quicktime)
<HankS> And besides, I'm keeping you
<Vance> Yeah, my wife called a second ago. She needs a ride somewhere.
<HankS> I need to sleep anyway
<HankS> Nice talking with you
<Vance> OK. I'll go ahead and download the fetal pig and have a look.
+ barbie has arrived.
<Vance> Thanks. Will the guest logon be available always? Or will you be turning that off.
<barbie> ... it cut me off!!!
<Vance> those 2000 browser windows
<barbie> Probably!
<HankS> we thought you went off in a huff
<barbie> Hank - I was browsing your site and then it all went wrong:(
<HankS> the WebCT?
<Vance> I'm just getting images of pig viscera. Maybe I'm in the wrong place.
<HankS> thats the fetal pig, its a dissection
<barbie> I will pass your site on to our Health Science section - I'm sure they'll be interested in it.
<Vance> sorry, bottom of page
<HankS> its a quicktime vr, and you can turn it around
<Vance> Yeah, but can they get it as guest?
<barbie> What is this quicktime stuff you are talking about?
<HankS> im trying to work out something with a couple of publishers, for much more extensive material
<Vance> It looks like a 5 min download.
<HankS> QuickTime is Apples video standard
<Vance> I'm at
<barbie> So you need it to run videos? Yes?
<Vance> I'm loading in a video image of a fetal pig which can be rotated
<HankS> QuickTime VR is Apple's virtual reality version
<barbie> And that rotates fetal pigs???
<HankS> this particular fetal pig consists of 36 images taken from around the periphery
<HankS> When you manipulate it, the pig rotates
<HankS> So your brain puts together a 3D view
<barbie> This is a probably a very silly question, but why do you need rotating pigs?
<Vance> I'm 33% there. What application did you use to put it all together?
<barbie> Sorry - I think you've just answered that question.
<HankS> QuickTime VR Authoring Studio
<Vance> Does qt vr work on PC, or Mac only?
<HankS> There are other programs of this type, but I'm not familiar with them
<barbie> I think I've got brain overload. Going to sit by the pool. Very very interesting stuff but a little out of my league. Vance - will be in touch. Hanks - thanks for the homepage. Bye
<HankS> That bottom hibiscus on the leahi homepage should be spinning, if you have the software
<HankS> Bye barbie
<Vance> Barbie, do you work with Kevin and Veronica?
<barbie> Vance - yes. In HD.
<barbie> Oh and by the way my name isn't Barbie. Codename!!! It's Ruth.
<Vance> I run with them.
<barbie> OK. They are very fit people.
<barbie> Speak to you soon. Bye.
<Vance> Ok. See, the sense of community comes together ...
- barbie just left.
<HankS> So another runner?
<Vance> OK, Hank, thanks. The pig is 69% there. Yeah, pic at
<HankS> You look pretty serious to me
<HankS> I used to run marathons
<Vance> I just did my ... 5th maybe?
<Vance> Pig is 95% here
<HankS> Mostly I bike these days. The ride up Tantalus is great
<HankS> You do have Quicktime 3.0?
<Vance> UP? Down would be better - Yeah, in fact ...
<HankS> Down is the cooldown
<HankS> Is it hot in Abu Dhabi?
<Vance> SUPERB pig. I wish I'd had this when I did my degree in bio in 1971!!!
<HankS> The tutorials will consist of a series like this
<HankS> Each frame with a single numbered label, or question
<HankS> and then identical frames with the answers, which you toggle to
<Vance> Great. Hank, it's been nice talking to you. I gotta go get my wife.
<HankS> Bye
<Vance> I'd like to see it when it's done.
- HankS just left.
- Vance just left.

Viewed as of June 16, 1998 -:

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Last updated: April 15, 1999